GW’s Space Marine Codex Q&A finally answered the big question hanging over Firstborn, Rhinos, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Bjorn, and more.
If you’ve got a hundred Firstborn Marines sitting in foam right now, this gives your models some extra life in the new Space Marines Codex. Real Legends rules are better than proxies, but you’re still going to have to wait, as Legendary Proxies will carry those units through launch, while their actual Legends rules won’t show up until weeks or even months later.
For anyone with Firstborn Space Marines, that means you’ll have to wait for a few months after the codex for actual Legends rules. But this still doesn’t mean your units are getting long-term support.
GW covered plenty of other ground too, from Rhino capacity and Deathwatch detachments to Grey Knights tanks, Bjorn, and whether armies staring down Toughness 5 Marines are getting any help of their own.
Here’s the full Q&A breakdown, following the same general order GW tackled it.
New Space Marine Stats, Toughness, and What Being Elite Costs Now
- Firstborn: your battle company stays legal through Legendary Proxies at launch, with real Legends rules following weeks or months later.
- The trade: Marines get tougher and stronger, and you pay for it in points and model count, not in free power.
- If that holds: nobody else gets an emergency patch, so the armies shooting at Marines wait for their own codex before anything changes.
Overall, GW keeps coming back to the lore when explaining these new Space Marine changes. The rules team looks at how a faction plays, compares that with how it’s supposed to feel in the setting, and decides how a unit should play.
They decided the old Marine statline wasn’t close enough to the lore because an elite force that’s supposed to hold the line while being outnumbered ten to one needed to feel tougher on the table.
Why did you change Space Marine stats?
GW’s answer is basically that the tabletop Marines weren’t living up to the fiction, so Toughness and Strength went up to help close that gap.
- The buffs are deliberate, not some accidental stat creep
- GW keeps pointing back to the lore because that’s what’s driving the change
- Toughness and Strength are part of a wider push toward making Marines feel properly elite
- That same faction-by-faction thinking will come up again with Custodes, Eldar, Votann, and later books
Will Toughness changes hit Tyranid Warriors, Battle Sisters, or Custodian Guard?
Not as part of this update. Right now, the Toughness pass is aimed at Astartes and their traitor cousins.
- There’s no emergency Toughness rebalance coming for the rest of 40k
- GW is handling armies one at a time instead of rewriting infantry across the whole game
- Custodes, Sisters, and Tyranids could change later, but nothing was promised
- So no, this isn’t confirmation that other buffs are coming
Do the changes hit every Chaos Marine army or just Codex: Chaos Space Marines?
They’re going to every Chaos Legion, so don’t worry about having weak CSM units. The Traitor Legions are coming along for the ride.
- The statline changes cross over to both loyalist and traitor Marines
- World Eaters and Death Guard won’t be left running around on the old Marine profiles
- The exact numbers will appear in the app when the update goes live
- GW wasn’t about to run through every affected unit during the Q&A
Marines are Toughness 5, so do the rest of us get a Strength patch?
No, because immediately buffing everybody’s weapons would defeat the reason GW changed Marine durability in the first place.
- There’s no blanket weapon Strength increase coming to cancel out Toughness 5
- GW wants ordinary guns to be worse against Marines
- Weapons meant specifically for killing Marines could get another look when their faction’s book comes around
- For now, that extra durability is supposed to be something you actually notice in games
Ork and Marine rules look overpowered, so how does anyone else compete?
This is where points come into it. Both armies are getting stronger model-for-model, but GW also expects you to pay more for those models. The goal is to leave their overall performance somewhere around where it was before.
- Better datasheets come with higher points costs
- Marines aren’t meant to get stronger while keeping exactly the same number of bodies on the table
- The Orks Codex is following the same basic approach
- If the results miss the mark, points and rules updates are where GW expects to make adjustments
Is the plan more elite and more expensive?
Yes, and this was probably the simplest answer GW gave all session.
- Marines are getting more elite and more expensive
- GW isn’t pretending the model count won’t come down along with that
- Toughness 5 is part of the army-wide direction, not some isolated datasheet experiment
How many Marines in a normal 2,000-point army now?
Expect slightly fewer, but there isn’t some universal percentage you can apply to every list.
- You’ll have fewer models, but GW isn’t talking about cutting armies in half
- Infantry-heavy lists will notice the change more than vehicle-heavy ones
- There’s no official “20% fewer Marines” target to build around
- How much it actually changes comes down to what you were already putting in your army
Firstborn Marines, Legends, And The Legendary Proxy Waiting Room
This was always going to be the part Firstborn players cared about most. After the news that the codex sent 17 units to Legends, people wanted to know whether their collections were actually getting rules or just sitting on the table as proxies.
Now we’ve at least got the shape of the transition.
Why don’t the removed units get real Legends rules right away?
They are getting them, just not when the codex launches. Tactical Squads will use proxy rules first, then eventually get their own datasheets back.
- Legendary Proxies are the temporary solution, not where these units are supposed to stay
- Tactical Marines start out proxying as Intercessors before getting Tactical Squad rules again
- GW says the proper Legends rules should arrive weeks or months after the codex. But remember, Legends rules are still not tournament legal, so this is better than proxies, but not great overall.
- Those rules are also expected to get app support through the Warhammer Legends rules and datasheets system
What do I do with my 100-Marine Firstborn battle company?
They say to keep playing it. For anyone sitting on a big Firstborn collection, that was supposed to be a reassuring answer. But Legends are still not playable or supported like regular units. This is better than proxies, but it means they aren’t getting long-term support.
- GW’s answer for large Firstborn armies is Legends, not putting them on the shelf
- Legendary Proxies cover the period before the proper rules arrive
- Assault Marines, Devastators, and Tactical Marines were all specifically named as coming back
- GW is also pushing Legends pretty hard for narrative and historical games
Isn’t a Spartan too big to run as a Land Raider?
Sometimes the proxy clearly won’t match the original model’s footprint, and GW seems fine with that. Their view is that being oversized can help and hurt, so when it becomes an issue, your opponent gets the benefit of the doubt.
- Legendary Proxies don’t have to match the replacement model’s dimensions
- GW openly acknowledged that some models will be bigger or smaller than what they’re standing in for
- A larger model can be harder to hide while also being easier to reach in combat
- They’d rather have players sort those situations out with sportsmanship than pile on more modeling rules
It’s also worth remembering that the last chance to buy cuts are what created a lot of these strange proxy situations in the first place.
Firstborn Marines Are Still Alive In The Lore
Losing a miniature from the current range isn’t the same thing as deleting it from the setting, and GW went out of its way to separate those two ideas.
What happened to Firstborn in the lore?
Nothing, really. GW’s point was that the codex reflects what’s currently supported as miniatures, not every Space Marine who still exists somewhere in the Imperium.
- Moving to Legends doesn’t kill Firstborn Marines in the fiction
- GW is treating the miniature range and the actual population of the galaxy as separate things
- Entire chapters can still be isolated enough to remain mostly Firstborn rather than Primaris
- That leaves narrative players plenty of room to keep doing their thing
Is the Primaris and Firstborn divide still a thing, or just a design distinction?
It’s still part of the setting, and GW sounds interested in telling more stories about the friction between the two.
- Firstborn and Primaris still coexist in canon
- The cultural divide between them hasn’t quietly disappeared
- Gabriel Seth and the Flesh Tearers came up as the example of Primaris Marines having to prove themselves
- Crossing the Rubicon is still something that can matter to a character instead of being treated like paperwork
That lines up pretty well with the whole “aren’t illegal, just homeless” situation we’ve been talking about since these cuts started.
Deathwatch, Grey Knights, And The Divergent Chapters
The codex changes don’t stop with regular Space Marines either. Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and the divergent chapters all came up, and there were a few genuinely useful answers buried in here.
What does the codex mean for Deathwatch?
Deathwatch are getting a digital supplement alongside the main book, and there’s about the same amount happening as most supplements.
- There are two detachments: one at 3 Detachment Points for a full Deathwatch army and another at 1 DP that can slot into a broader Marine force
- Kill Team rules, and the flyer both remain
- That 1 DP detachment is probably the more interesting option if you like mixed Marine armies
- For all the attention on Firstborn, this was one of the biggest concrete rules reveals in the Q&A
Do Grey Knights lose the Stormraven, Venerable Dreadnought, Razorback, or Rhino?
Not with this update. Their Marine-related profile changes carry across, but those units aren’t being pulled from the roster right now.
- Those Grey Knights units are staying for now
- The Marine stat changes still apply where appropriate
- Any bigger roster shakeup has to wait for the actual Grey Knights codex
- We’d still pay attention to the words “for now” before making any long-term assumptions, and there’s a l
Are the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels updates free?
The chapter supplements are free. The shared Space Marine units they use are another story.
- The chapter-specific supplement material is free in the app
- Access to shared units like Intercessors and Marine vehicles still requires the code from the physical codex
- So running a divergent chapter digitally doesn’t suddenly become completely free
- That clears up some of the confusion left over from the Space Marine detachment reveals
Chaos Vehicles, The Baal Predator, And Bjorn
A few older vehicles and named characters have been sitting under a cloud since the loyalist cuts started. GW actually gave some pretty straightforward answers here.
Can I still use my Chaos Predators and Vindicators?
Yes. Loyalist vehicles disappearing doesn’t mean the Chaos versions automatically follow them into Legends.
- Nothing Chaos is moving to Legends as part of this update, but again, you still might want to be worried once the codex does come out
- Loyalist vehicle removals don’t automatically carry across to the traitor armies
- If you’re using tanks in the Chaos faction packs, they’re still there
- The same goes for players building around the World Eaters detachments
Is the Baal Predator gone, and is a Baal Repulsor real?
The Baal Predator survives. The Baal Repulsor is not a thing, no matter how quickly that joke escapes into the wild.
- The Baal Predator made it through this round of cuts
- GW did not announce a Baal Repulsor
- The hosts joked that the designers ought to make one, and that’s all it was
Is Bjorn going to Legends?
No, Bjorn is staying right where he is.
- GW said plenty of people wrote in because they were worried about him
- Retiring the classic Dreadnought kit doesn’t automatically send named characters built around that style of chassis to Legends
- This was specifically an answer about Bjorn, not a guarantee covering every older chapter vehicle or character
- The Legends rumors that had people worried about him didn’t pan out
Transports And Weapon Options
The vehicle cuts got most of the attention, but some of the smaller equipment and transport answers could have just as much impact once people actually start building lists.
What can a Rhino carry now?
Primaris Marines can finally ride in one, and the capacity is twelve models.
- Primaris officially fit in Rhinos now, which only took about a decade
- The transport capacity is 12 models
- GW’s example was an Intercessor squad with characters riding along
- It also removes one of the longest-running divides between Firstborn and Primaris units
Do Intercessors get the old Tactical Squad special and heavy weapons?
No, GW still wants Intercessors and Tactical Marines filling different roles instead of turning them into two versions of the same squad.
- Intercessors keep their existing kit, including grenade launchers and Sergeant options
- Tactical Marines get things like missile launchers and flamers back through their Legends rules
- The two units are meant to stay different on the table
- It’s less convenient if you wanted one squad to do everything, but it also gives Tactical Marines a reason to remain their own unit
Are combi-weapons back for Sternguard?
Kind of, although GW’s version cuts out a lot of the fiddly bookkeeping the old setup could create.
- The squad chooses a shooting profile for anti-tank, anti-heavy infantry, or crowd control
- Individual models can still be built carrying different combi-weapons
- You don’t have to track a separate profile for every model based on exactly which combi-weapon it’s holding
- Sergeant weapons and heavy weapons still stay separate from the squad’s chosen profile
- GW mentioned Ork combi-weapons as a similar idea without promising that every army will work this way
If chainswords go to Strength 5, what about power weapons and thunder hammers?
There isn’t a universal plus one Strength being slapped onto every melee weapon. Some profiles move, and others stay put.
- A Captain’s master-crafted power sword goes to Strength 6, while some other power weapons remain at 5
- GW wants more separation between different weapon profiles instead of having everything bunch together
- Master-crafted weapons sitting above their ordinary versions looks like part of that approach
- GW didn’t give Power Fist or Thunder Hammer numbers, so those will have to wait for the datasheets, much like the faction packs with no patch notes we got last time
Mixed Toughness, Eldar, Custodes, And The Books Coming Next
Once Marine stats start moving, the obvious next question is what happens to everybody standing across the table from them. GW’s answer, for the most part, is that every army gets dealt with when its own turn comes.
How do Crusader Squads work with mixed Toughness?
The core rules already cover it, so GW doesn’t think Black Templars need a special patch.
- Tougher Initiates are removed first, which effectively lets them screen the Neophytes
- Bodyguard-style rules can change that removal order
- That interaction becomes more noticeable now that different Marine armor types can sit at different Toughness values
Do Eldar datasheets change now that Phobos Marines can outrun them?
Not right away. GW acknowledged that the raw Movement values can look odd, but pointed toward abilities and out-of-sequence movement as part of how Eldar speed is represented.
- No emergency Movement increase was announced for Aeldari
- GW understands why the comparison looks strange on paper
- Their argument is that Eldar speed isn’t supposed to come entirely from the Movement characteristic
- That explanation only goes so far until we actually see what happens when the Eldar book arrives
Do Custodes get the same elite treatment?
Maybe eventually, but nothing was confirmed here.
- Custodes buffs were not announced in this Q&A
- GW clearly knows why people are asking about them after the Marine changes
- The stated plan is still to handle each army when its own turn comes
- A wider spread in stats across 40k might be where things are heading, but that’s our read rather than something GW promised
Do future codex writers know about all this?
Yes. These books aren’t being written one after another in total isolation.
- Multiple codexes are in development at the same time
- The designers can see several books ahead on the codex release schedule
- Both internal and external playtesting feed into that process
- That was GW’s answer to the concern that early-edition books might set a power level the later books weren’t designed around
The Fun Questions GW Mostly Dodged
Not everything was Toughness values and Legends timelines. A few questions were clearly there to see whether the hosts would accidentally say something interesting, and GW mostly managed not to.
When are we getting a plastic Thunderhawk?
They laughed and moved on. So, basically, exactly what you’d expect.
- No announcement, no release window, and no outright denial
- They didn’t even go as far as saying it had been discussed
- Considering how much attention the plastic Thunderhawk has been getting lately, that silence is about all there is to work with. Even after their terrain bait-and-switch.
Will Konrad Curze come back, and will he be loyal?
No to both, and the whole thing was delivered as a joke.
- GW pointed out that Curze wasn’t exactly famous for being loyal in the first place
- He’s firmly in the dead Primarch category rather than one of the ambiguous cases
- Mostly a lore gag
Where is Pedro Kantor?
He’s alive, he’s still leading the Crimson Fists, and no, GW didn’t announce a new miniature for him.
- Pedro Kantor is still fine in the lore
- No new model was revealed, but it’s not totally ruled out
- The design team said it has been working through the list of classic characters people keep asking about
- Lukas the Trickster came up in the same conversation
- “I’m sure we’ll get to it eventually” sounded like a wink, not a confirmation, much like the last 11th Edition Q&A
Final Thoughts on the Space Marine Codex Q&A
The biggest thing to watch out for next isn’t whether Toughness 5 Marines are strong, because they probably will be. We already know GW wants them tougher and more expensive; what’s more interesting is how long the Firstborn Legend rules actually take to land. Will it be a couple of weeks, or actual months?
Legendary Proxies will keep the models playable in the meantime, but there’s a big difference between being told your Tactical Marines can temporarily count as Intercessors and getting the actual Tactical Squad rules back.
The other side of this update is interesting too because now armies trying to kill these tougher Marines aren’t getting an instant round of buffs to compensate. GW wants the durability change to matter, and everyone else is apparently going to find out what that looks like when their own codex comes around.
So there are two things worth watching after launch: how long those Firstborn Legends datasheets really take to arrive, and whether the point increases for the rest are enough to keep tougher Marines from becoming a problem before the rest of 40k catches up.
🔗 Related Reads:
- New Space Marine Codex Buffs Marines but Cuts Model Counts
- GW Pulls The Plug on More Space Marines, Sends 17 Units To Legends
- New Warhammer 40k Legends in 11th Edition: Rules & Datasheets
- 40k Deathwatch Gets Full Army Rules & New Legends Units
- New 40k Codex Release Schedule: 2026 Roadmap for 11th Edition
- Warhammer 40k 11th Edition Rules: Release Date, Detachments + Every Change
- Thunderhawk Impact Site: GW’s Plastic Bait-and-Switch
What do you think about the Legendary Proxy waiting period for your Firstborn Marines?
