Thousand Sons Blues? What’s Up With The New Rules?

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Black Blow Fly here to tell you what I think of everything we’ve seen about the new Thousand Sons, and the new rules for sorcerers.

Hey everyone it’s your neighborhood Black Blow Fly passing through to spread some more mischief and the rot! There’s been lots and lots of talk about the new Thousand Sons with the new releases. GW has just released new rules and we finally have a chance for a viable army playing Thousand Sons… we we can always dream right ?

thousand sons

Thousand Son Blues

To be honest I’m disappointed about the new rules… why…

1. Magnus overcosted
2. Rubric Marines overcosted and not multi-wound units
3. Rubric Terminators overcosted, not multi-wound and no access to power fists or chain fists
4. Daemons getting preferential treatment over CSM yet again

Now don’t get me wrong – I still have hope that some of the traitor legions will be viable again with new rules, but to do so, cult Marines sorely need a point reduction… It’s just that simple. Hopefully some will, and there will be new game mechanics that make the undivided legions viable as well. Hopefully we will not be hit with codex dinobots part 2.

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But Why?

So let’s run through my four points above why I’m disappointed with the new rules for Thousand Sons.

1. Magnus is really really expensive. I feel that while Magnus is very powerful his high point cost really puts a damper on armies built up to de facto standard levels such as 1850 points and even higher since his inclusion will greatly reduce your choice of other units… Again we come back to direct comparisons versus other greatly undercosted monstrous creatures for the ubiquitous xenos armies.

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That’s right I’m talking about Wraithknights, Supremacy Suits and the Stormsurge. While Magnus got the royal treatment in the rules department and is probably more powerful than any of the currently released Primarchs for the Horus Heresy the daemon Primarch has been costed more in line with what you’d expect for 30k rather than 40k which is simply too much. I think Magnus should have clocked between 400-500 points for 40k.

2. There was no real point cost reduction for Rubric Marines. They really need to be multi wound models in order to be effective versus all the very powerful shooting standard now to 40k. The new Rubric Marines need to get up close and personal in order to be effective with their template weapons. Their low AP bolters will still have major problems versus the over abundance of cover saves.rubicmarines01

3. Rubric Terminators are in the same boat as Rubric Marines. The lack of AP 2 melee weapons simply make them ineffective versus any enemy unit with a 2+ armor save. Sure they are very pretty but that’s about it which just doesn’t cut it in a competitive gaming environment. Rubric terminators were once 2 wounds apiece so what’s the big deal ?

4. Daemons Win… Again. Horrors look to be the big winners… thanks Phil Kelly, your love for Tzneetch daemons is there for all to see. The CSM component is still basically the same as ever. Sorry but you missed the proverbial boat yet again.Cabal_DaemonPrince-0f3a45-268x300

So maybe Magnus, a Tzneetch Daemon Prince and Lord of Change, with a whole host of boundless Horrors is the way to go but it easily could have been a different story if the Rubric Marines and Terminators had finally got the love they so deserve.

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~Oh well here’s to waiting to see what drops next. How do you feel about the new rules?

I’ve been very busy in the world of Horus Heresy where we first saw the Primarchs come to life… Magnus is basically the new kid on the block. I invite you to check out my Horus Heresy Facebook page:

Black Blow Fly’s Facebook Page

I’ve also created a Facebook group to discuss the Horus Heresy and you’re welcome to join:

horus heresy walpaper

Horus Heresy Facebook Group

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  • Peisen Xu

    Waaaah waaaaaaaah. I want multi wound marines!

    Because multi wound marines have always been a thing, and it really fits with the Rubik marine vibe.

    • Peisen Xu

      That was sarcasm btw.

      Aside from that though, interesting points. And to believe I still have a friend who thinks I’m not being fair to him when I run a legion list against his 40k stuff.

    • Scott Resnick

      Actually, 2W Rubrics were what came before the Invulnerable Save Rubrics.

      • Peisen Xu

        That was a different time and you know it. But to clarify, since the article is talking about them keeping up with the current environment, I was thinking more along the lines of the now instead of the past. I’ll ask again – what power armoured infantry model has 2 wounds? Iron Hands? Plague Marines? Grey Knights? Honor Guard? Veterans?

  • Troy G

    Magnus is undercosted if anything. He is functionally invulnerable in the game (unless an alphastrike army catches him on the ground), and the most powerful psycher in a game that is increasingly more about the psychic phase. He has all of the pros of the psychic phase with none of the cons.

    I’d say he is more problematically costed than a Wraithknight, because there are things that can reliably kill a Wraith Knight. Magnus can’t really be killed in the same way, and puts out more damage. He just doesn’t provide as much scoring,

    I don’t think I would have ever given Magnus that combo of abilities, because casting on 2’s, ignoring perils with so many powers, and a Giant Strength D beam make him problematic to play in any sized game. I think he’d be more on par with things like Storm Surges and Imperial Knights if he was around 1100 points, but honestly, they should just take away his cast on 2’s, and ignores perils, and he would be more playable. Or take away the ability to swoop, and he’d be fine.

  • Gen. David Betrayus 2.0

    Scarab Occult are not that bad. The complainers just want them to be a Deathstar unit like Paladins are.

    • Ryan C

      They are ok in their formation with T5 and re-rolling 1s. (which can’t be played to its fullest in a game under 2k pts) but as a unit outside of the formation you are paying a premium for a crappier version of normal terminators which were already considered over costed.

      As a Deathwing player I know how rough Terminators feel in this edition, and these guys feel like crappy Deathwing for the same pts as an already crappy unit.

      • Gen. David Betrayus 2.0

        Do other Terminators really need to be as good as the Deathwing? Their the “Deathwing” for a reason.
        On the other hand, yes normal Terminators outright suck. That is GWs fault for introducing models/rules that have lower cost per unit and superior durability. Without buffing Terminators themselves.

        • Ryan C

          If you are paying as many or more pts for them, ya, they do.

          And Deathwing suck, its not like we are holding them up to this amazing squad. I compared them to DW because DW are also 40pts base each so its an even comparison.

          • Gen. David Betrayus 2.0

            Well if your using them without Land Raiders, Raven Wing or Teleport Homers. Than they suck. I ran mine with Plasma Cannons and Chain fists if I can fit in points for a ten model squad.

            Deathwing Knights are good for bodyguards melee based HQs , while the DW Command Squad should always be shoved into a Land Raider.

          • Ryan C

            No, they are bad, no matter how you field them. Without the above they go from bad to laughably horrible.

            2.8 marines is better than 1 terminator in almost every situation.

            1 black night is better than 1 terminator in almost every situation.

            1.6 Bikers are better than 1 terminator.

            In a Dark Angels army, the best thing you can do to make your army stronger is not take any Deathwing at all.

          • Gen. David Betrayus 2.0

            Really? Deathwing Knights and FNP from the DW Command Squad are still pretty good. As the Knights are usually the last word in Assault. You either play poorly, or use them like their Tau.

            Tactical Squads only get one Heavy Weapon at best.
            Bikers unless their Knights don’t get more than two Plasma weapons.

            The only time Green Wing even compare is if your using Plasma Vets. Which are basically suicide units at that point.

            I still rather have the Land Raiders as DTs. If I have any tanks at all. As Rhinos are just cheap mobile bunkers that don’t last very long.

          • Ryan C

            Dude, I wish you were right, I have a LOT of DW models, but any time I field them most get shot off the table long before they can dream of assaulting.

            Any competitive army will have that Land Raider cracked on the first turn or two. And Deep striking just conveniently puts your expensive terminators in Rapid Fire range to get shot to pieces.

            A Terminator is mathematically about twice as hard to kill as a marine outside of only AP3 weapons which aren’t super common. (Against AP 4-6 having 3 wounds and 3+ is 50% tougher to kill than 1 wound and a 2+. Against AP3 the 2+ does win, but then against AP2 having 3 wounds and no saves beats 1 wound and a 5+ convincinly)

            For the price of 1 terminator I can get about 3 marines. So basically im getting a free marine in resilience over the terminator. On top of that 3 bolters out shoot 1 stormbolter. Plus standard marines get 1 special weapon for every 70pts spent where as Terminators get 1 special weapon for ever 200pts spent so the marines get far more than twice as much heavy firepower, point for point.

            Where the Terminators do excel is in close combat, but since their numbers are so low and since DS requires they stand there and take a round of shooting to the face before assaulting they usually get cut down pretty heavily on the turn they come in, teleport homers or not.

            I agree the Land Raider delivery mechanism is probably the most effective way to deliver Terminators (at least for DA, imo storm raven is the most reliable terminator delivery mechanism) but now we are talking about almost 500pts to deliver a single 5 man unit.

            Remember, for the cost of that combo I could alternatively pick up so many 5 man squads with heavy weapons that it would be impossible for the Knights to kill them all in a game. That bulk of squads, however, depending on how you arm them could easily shoot down the raider and its contents while scoring several objectives.

            As for bikes T5, 3+ rerollable jink rocking a twin linked plasma gun and rending attacks is so much better than a single Terminator that its nuts.

            And normal bikes, I can get a 3 man squad with 2 special weapons rocking T5, rerollable 4+ jink for the cost of just over 2 Terminators. Again, way more bang for my buck.

            There is a reason that in competitive play Ravenwing is considered strong while Deathwing gets lumped in with armies like Orkz and is considered well towards the low end of the totem pole.

            As for Knights being the best at Assault, I’d say they are among the upper end as terminators go, but really they are just marine killing specialists. Against other terminators they are mediocre and against low armor save armies with way larger numbers they just don’t have enough attacks to be very good. Sure they will usually tear down quite a few models but its rare that they bring enough carnage to justify paying almost 500pts for a small squad and Land Raider taxi. Remember, for that price opponents can bring things like a Stormsurge which will have a way bigger impact on the game than the Knights and their transport.

            Overall in the great big scheme of the game I’d put DW terminators at maybe like a 4/10 in terms of value. While tactical marines would be more like a 6/10 and Black Knight would be like an 8/10. Meanwhile you will be facing things like scatter bikes which are more like 9/10 or 10/10. DW just don’t stand up outside casual play.

  • Nyyppä

    Magnus can make his points back pretty easily on 2 turns just with summoning. Assuming that he is still alive after that it’s all good.

  • MrDracoSpirit .

    Scarab Occult seems a solid deep strike alpha strike on anything with less than 2+ armor save. Exalted Sorcerers are boss and the humble beastmen seem like a unit that could really shine with its formation….

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