Games Workshop is Being Sued For $62.5M

Scales of Justice

The latest chapter in the house of Games Workshops’ legal troubles is here, as they are being sued for $62.5 million dollars amid 6 criminal complaints.

Game store owner, and legal counsel David Moore has filed a criminal complaint in the US Federal Court of Southern Florida alleging six criminal violations of US law and is seeking $62.5 million in equitable relief from Games Workshop.

Moore alleges violations of the U.S. Law and RICO under 18 & 15 U.S. CODE, including but not limited to Fraud, Price Fixing, Tortious Interference, Breach of Contract, Unjust Enrichment, Restraint of Trade, Conspiracy and Antitrust Violations.

He alleges that the current way that Games Workshop does business in America from limiting stores access to new releases in the numbers they may actually need, taking more and more items back to direct sales, and making other items only available exclusively hampers businesses here in the states:

  1. Plaintiff herein affirms all previous paragraphs 1 – 12 and all hereinafter in his Cause of Action for Restraint of Trade by GW, as if set forth again and as more fully set forth hereinafter:
  2. GW more and more blatantly violates Antitrust law to restrain trade of the models they job-out in China – to interfere with Store’s ability to do business freely – to Steal my sales.
  3. For near-30-years GW has always maintained that we sellers can “Set any price we want for the items we wholesale from them (GW)”. Yet, more recently GW ‘asked’ its retailers “not to have a ‘shopping cart’ on our websites – since they were adding one to theirs”!? Soon after, without agreement from Stores – GW ‘asked’ that “advertised prices (on the internet) not be more than 20%-Off MSRP – directly contradicting their previous assurances and our extant long-held Verbal Good-Faith Contract. Later, (unknown to Plaintiff) GW said 15%-off.
  4. Eventually (and unknown to your Plaintiff Stores) GW ‘claimed’ to have quietly instituted a ‘policy’ to outright ‘prohibit’ any/all sales which used internet.
  5. This would be like tool supplier telling retailers 50-years ago that:“Customers can buy in your Store – but if they call you on the Telephone – then they HAVE to buy from us direct”.

GW ‘Investor Relations’ webpage betrays their criminal intent (as well as socio-pathology to ethics regarding the Great Debt they owe to the America Stores that made them:

He later remarks in his complaint:

In America we have a Free Enterprise Free Market system of law different than the socialist-base of Europe. Our Sherman Anti-Trust Act and the UCC insure that companies like GW don’t unfairly play/steal all roles. GW violates these Laws against your Stores by continually stealing sales and pre-ordered products from 1,500 American retailers:

Starship Troopers Powered Armor

Moore even goes on to say in the background of his Fraud complaint that Games Workshop may have even stolen Intellectual property of others to establish it’s Warhammer 40,000 game in the 1980s among others:

  1. I1987GW’ in England released the SAME essential game: a space-empire starting in the 31st Century with warp travel, Dropships, Power-armoured gene-modified humans, tracked & hover-tanks – and huge robots & pilots (called a ‘Titan’), with guns, lasers, plasma weapons
  2. Famed Author, Robert A. Heinlencoined a common-law copyright of: Space Marines in his his Novels: “Misfits” (1939), “The Long Watch” (1941), and culminating in “Starship Troopers” (1959). Space Marines were Heinlen’s paragons of human spacefaring military prowess (often combatting voracious, sentient space-insects)!
  3. So, in 1987 GWtook Heinlen’s Space Marines – to add it to FASA’s game-theme, in a double-theft of others’ intellectual property. Artist R. Geiger teamed with 20th Century Fox, Ridley Scott, & James Cameron, to make films of human-devouring Insectoids: ALIEN (1979) and ALIENS (1986). In October 1987 GW released ‘New Rules’ with their rip-off ALIENS, renamed: Genestealers-Tyranids – identical to Geiger’s/FOX’s images and vision.
  4. So: Heinlen’s Space Marinesbattle Geiger’s ALIENS – in GW’s game – just like in Heinlen’s original Starship TroopersNever legally paid for!
  5. Prior to stealing these, GW’s Warhammergame was a 110% rip-off of R.R. Tolkien – Middle Earth magic/fantasy war of Tolkein’s Orcs-Goblins-Trolls-Ogres-Dwarves-Elvesetc. The litany of GW’s copyright thefts and abuses are endless, from the exact spelling of Tolkein’s Eldar – to exact sculpts of Universal’s DraculaFrankenstein, Werewolf, Mummy.  GW’s 5-man Terminator Squad – is a Xerox of FASA’s 5-man Elemental Staret al.

He goes on to make seven pages of points based on each of the six criminal complaints he alleges in his suit, which if you have the time to sit down and digest is quite the eye opener.

Some of the items that we though that were of particular interest to hobbyists are listed below:

Imperial Space Marine box

GW sells 1-inch-models like the ‘Imperial Space Marine’ for $30.00 retail online, requiring a ‘minimum’ of $10 Shipping. Stores contacted the V.P. of ‘Double-Grand’  (associate of GW’s Asian suppliers) and received a Confirmed quote of “3-cents-per-figure” for  said 1-inch injection molded plastic figures. GW sells mass-produced plastic at 50,000-percent-mark-up! Its not a 100% markup for 6-cents, not a 1,000% for 60-cents – but 50,000% at $30.00!?

Editor’s note: Turing Pharmaceuticals was recently in the hot seat for raising the price of it’s life saving drug 5,000%, While Games Workshop by comparison may sell their toys at a markup well over that, and while these models are not needed to sustain life, it may still give room for pause to some.

Their aforementioned deceptions and lies manipulate the market to increase demand for little plastic pieces that cost 3-cents to mass-produce.  They over-hype product and limit its supply to create the illusion of an over-demand condition.  Defendants create pure artificial demand. They pre-sell items to Plaintiff. Then they short Plaintiff Store’s pre-purchased supply – stealing it back to re-sell Plaintiff’s property at their absurd 50,000% marked-up prices.

Warhammer Fantasy Battle

GW has long contracted a Written Agreement on its website: “Whatever the reason you can cancel or return any order to us for a full refund, or exchange it for something else. No quibbles and no funny handshakes required.”  Yet this has not at all been honored for the poor public left holding now-worthless game purchases – fully exchangeable for valid ones now.

Funny thing is, this policy is still posted on their site right now.

returns gw

And where does the $62.5 million part come into all this? Well that may just be the most interesting part of all. Moore seems to indicate he is ready to play a Robin Hood of sorts.

Read the following list of what he is looking for the court rule as equitable relief for this complaint.

Games Workshop Product

For all the game store owners out there this first point may sound appealing:

Declaratory relief Ordering GW to estoppel and stay of any and all interferences direct and indirect and Stores or customers, including but not limited to PROHIBITING GW from:

Contacting any parties of any kind, from Amazon, to eBay, to Facebook, et al, to ‘enforce’, inquire, track, undermine, harass, interfere with any persons or parties who may or may not be engaging in their Right to exchange, trade, sell, buy, or anything pertaining to ‘GW’s-alleged-dubious-so-called-licensed-products’, or any others; and,

Hacking or spying on private and/or business computers with ‘cookies’ or other means to steal and undermine sales methods, or sabotage networks of customers, etc; and,

‘Suspending’ or interfering in any Stores continued orders for GW’s ‘monopoly’ product for three game stores with up to $40.000/month each without GW interference from their Directonline ordering format at 50%…

The resolving of what Moore considers betrayed public obligations, and the nullification of GW’s copyrights, trademarks and IP:

Declaratory Relief in the form of an ORDER from this Court Nullifying any and all ‘claims’ by GW of ‘copyrights’, Trademarks, or ‘intellectual property’ that GW has tried to assert, file or ‘enforce’ – in America – to conveying same to Plaintiff to create a federally approved non-profit Public Trust (Trust) to dutifully administer GW’s betrayed public obligations or ‘exchange items’ (under its policy) to be administered by Stores/Trust; and,

and the Robin Hood part: plus the rest of the equitable relief:

An amount of 50,000,000.00 paid by GW to Stores to operate Stores/Trust to administer and oversee the fair and continued support or exchange of the public’s betrayed investments cited herein, to then convert to Public Domain in 10 years.

Award plaintiff his costs of litigation upon his detailed account of hours and work on these matters kept concurrent with the work itself, and,Damages of $2,500,000.00 for willful, intentional and illegal acts to damage Plaintiff’s businesses and investments; and,

Punitive Damages of $10,000,000.00 paid by GW to Plaintiff for willful, intentional and illegal acts of RICO, Price Fixing, Stock Manipulation, Fraud, Tortious Interference with Business, Copyright Theft and Public Fraud, Misuse of ‘copyright laws’, et al; and’,

We had a chance to catch up with David Moore in a 1-1/2 hour phone interview over the weekend while he was out of country (as he does time to time for various Human Rights Law pro bono work).

Catch our article tomorrow on what may be next for this case with what Moore has to say about the case himself outside of these filings, as he has some curious things in store for anyone in the public that has suffered financially at the hands of GW at the register.

What do you think about this complaint? Checkout out coverage on the past Chapter House studios case, and be sure download the full complaint and the affidavit on our legal watch page, and judge for yourself!

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Moore VS. Games Workshop

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  • MrDracoSpirit .

    Isn’t most modern fantasy based of the Lord of the Rings to a lessor or greater dergee?

    • Alex Buell

      Yup, though Tolkien heavily drew from centuries-old mythology and folklore when writing Lord of the Rings. You can’t copyright orcs, goblins, dwarves,and elves.

      • Timothy Peterson

        Well, actually you COULD copyright Orcs. He made those up. But he didn’t. Nor did Chaosium copyright Chaos Beastmen AKA Broos. GW stole both.

        • Justin Adams

          you can’t copyright them. And saying ‘well, actually’ doesn’t make it more true. There are strict legal requirements that neither chaosium or Tolkien could meet in your example due to preexisting concepts and terms.

          Though if you create a wholly original name (say, for instance, using a dead latin language to generate all of your names) tied to a distinct conceptual property (say, for instance, clitoris-faced horsemen) that you have a preexisting history of defending as your own property for 30+ years.

    • 40K Today

      There’s a lot of fantasy from before LoTR, though I’d say he invented his style of elves.

      • Chris Currie

        I think he invented the terms Orcs and Half Orcs as well.

        • Lord Fangio

          Actually he didn’t. Orc is a derogatory Saxon word for “Norman”, which he considered to be cultural savages. Hence the creature he named after them.

          • George Mas

            …and before that, a roman God ‘orkus’, derived from the Greek ‘Orkos’ (oath), who basically was thought to be a hairy ogre-like creature living underground..

        • Justin Adams

          In addition to Fangio and Mas’s points, Orruc were medieval Spanish pigmen thought to arise from the chaotic realms between night and day.

      • Dan Wilson

        Tolkien’s elves borrow highly from the medieval concepts of the fey, with the Seelie and Unseelie Courts. Not so much short pixies with pointed ears as superbly elegant and beautiful slightly taller than human stature, lithe, agile and horribly manipulative and arrogant towards humans.

    • Valourousheart

      When it comes to game companies borrowing ideas from other sources, I never have to look any further than my display cabinet. In there I have a copy of 1st edition D&D, and inside that box I have a copy of 3rd edition Chainmail.

      If you are not familiar with Chainmail, it was the dungeon crawling role play game that was the inspiration TSR used when developing D&D.

      But all these years later, nobody has heard of chainmail. And the only reason why that old rule book is interesting to anyone, is because of the connection to D&D.

  • vash113

    While I agree that GW borrows heavily from other intellectual properties for their source material the same is true of most things. LotR is the basis for pretty much the entire range of fantasy literature, movies, games and everything really, and even that was essentially borrowed by Tolkien from existing mythology, it wasn’t original then either. Much the same can be said about Science Fiction, I mean Space Marines are just Marines (ie soldiers based off of a ship) in space. Power armor is a common sci-fi element and giant bugs in space? I really don’t think Heinlen or Geiger can really complain about someone else putting giant killer bugs in space.

    There’s a big difference between copyrightable intellectual property and broad strokes of a genre, Tolkien’s estate doesn’t have the right to elves, orks, dragons or even halflings, nor IMO does Heinlen have the copyright to space marines or power armor, or giant mechs, laser cannons or any of the other basic, fundamental technology and concepts of the entire genre of science fiction. The same things that weighed in chapterhouse’s own lawsuit with GW will favor GW in this lawsuit and they may well use some of the same arguments and precedents set in that case.

    As for business practices I doubt they have much of a case there either, 3rd party retailers often get screwed by suppliers in most industries and I doubt the public trust argument will hold much water. After all even if it is true that a single resin character is only 3 cents to make that doesn’t include the marketing, shipping and design costs which include the office space, employee pay, equipment costs and operating costs.

    IMO this lawsuit sounds like a lot of hot air.

    • James Villian

      I’d be shocked if GW needs to use legal arguments at all, beyond the lack of standing this fella appears to have.

      • Aaron Price

        the guys a human rights lawyer, pretty sure the “lack of understanding” is on YOUR part.

        • James Villian

          Lol, clearly not, given dismissal and the requirement that he hire an attorney. Next.
          (ps, I said “lack of standing” in the legal sense, not “lack of understanding”, so ironically, you also had a lack of understanding)

          • Aaron Price

            “The Nazi problem comes down to this: As an ultra-nationalist, socially conservative, anti-egalitarian and fascist ideology, Nazism naturally falls on the extreme far-right end of the political spectrum; but if it can be successfully argued that it’s really a form of socialism, it would make more sense to place it on the far left.”

          • Aaron Price

            wrong comment

          • Aaron Price

            Wrong comment below.

    • Jason Lacey

      power armor, first appears in EE doc Cummings
      Lensman series.

      • pizmeyre

        Smith.. E.E. Cummings was the poet…

    • Doc Bedlam

      Yeah, but most fantasy authors, games, and products don’t sue anyone for daring to talk about elves, dwarfs, and orcs.

    • TheSilverPrince

      Even if it costs nothing to make, The seller has rights to sell their product at whatever price they want. He is trying to claim that GW selling their products at a high cost is somehow an Anti-trust. The problem is other model manufacturers exist who sell models at different price points. In order to claim anti-trust GW would have to force a standard price. Meaning having Privateer Press Models selling at the same price as GW models.

      • MrDracoSpirit .

        Pretty much why I think it going to fail. GW models are pricey… but other people sell there own models with there own rule systems.

      • Joshua Meade

        actually, part of the issue is that gw threatens to not sell their product to the vendors if the vendors dont mark the products at their desired price. this has been going on since before 3rd edition.

        • Adrik

          GW has every right to do that. Tempur-Pedic does the same thing to mattress retailers. GW has the right to do this. What do you think the manufacturer has to sell to a retailer? Again, in the US there are things called MIRs. The manufacturer Imposed Requirements are allowed here in the US. What does an MIR mean? It means GW can demand you sell their product at the price they want you to sell them at and if you refuse they can decline to sell product to you.

          Retailers are given the right to demand a manufacturer sell to them.

          • DaneIlario

            No, they don’t have that right and neither does any manufacturer. That creates economic tyranny of the worst kind. When I purchase a product then I can do whatever the hell I want with it as long as I do not commit a crime in the process. Are you going to allow a corporation to start instructing you on what you do with what you purchase? Would you buy a car if you were told that if you want to drive it then you can only buy gas from one supplier? When the product has been purchased from the manufacturer at the agreed upon price and any accompanying warranty then the manufacturers authority over that product ends.

          • Adrik

            Your argument is so flawed it shows your grasp of the economy is non-existent. A seller can sell their goods at whatever they like. If you do not like it then you do not buy it. No one is forcing you to purchase the goods:

            Also, United States law states that a company has the right to enforce requirements on retailers. Once a product has been purchased you can do what you like with the product as long as its personal use. So, say you purchased a movie. Just because you own a movie doesn’t give you the right to copy the movie and sell the copies of the movie for your personal profit.

            Just becausee you purchased a model doesn’t give you the right to make duplicates and sell those duplicates online. In fact, it’s illegal. The rest of your argument doesn’t even touch base of the argument and is just igorneramt rantings.

          • Nigel Bennett

            Actually, you can make copies of things as long as you have no intention of selling them or giving them away..

          • Adrik

            Yes, that is called fair use. You cannot make copies with the intent to sell but you can make copies for personal use. What does this have to do with a retailer’s relationship with a manufacturer?

          • Nigel Bennett

            I apologize, I must’ve mistook your point. I believed that you were sta ting it wasnt legal for one to do so as they please with something they purchased.

        • TheSilverPrince

          The problem with that and you may not be aware of this but GW has the right to do all of that. GW has the right to impose an MIR on retailers. The MIR means Manufacturer Imposed Requirements. The Manufacturer has every right to say “if you want to sell my goods then you sell at this price or we wont sell to you.”. Apple does it, Tempur-pedic does it, Serta does it, and so forth. Heck, with carriers they get carrier exclusive phones. How long did At&t have the iPhone as an exclusive? Tempur-pedic to this day inspect retailers who sell their mattresses and if a retailer gets caught selling tempur’s at discount (other than discontinued demos) they will no longer sell to those retailers. In fact, Tempur-pedic generally takes old product back from the retailer. GW is infinitely nicer since they don’t make retailer exclusive products.. which they can! Mattressfirm carried two kinds of Tempur-pedic mattresses that no one but them could get.

          Manufacturers are not compelled by law to sell to other businesses. And don’t try to argue that they have a monopoly over Warhammer 40k. All companies have a monopoly over their own products.

      • fudgiemcgeeorielly

        not that GW charges more.. though they dont they charge what should be seen as the “real price” the issue and why its bad is they are saying you cant sell it for LESS than they do.. which honestly is pretty normal. We have resellers and they are not allowed to sell our stuff for less than a 25% markup. why let some other person cheapen your brand

        • TheSilverPrince

          Gamesworkshop has the right to tell resellers that they can’t sell under GW’s price. I do not know where you guys think a retailer can just buy from a manufacturer and sell at any price they like. That isn’t how commerce works. Gamesworkshop is under ZERO compulsion to sell their products to resellers. They do not have to. If a retailer wants to sell GW’s products then under law GW has the right to force requirements upon the retailer. Be that fixed pricing or whatever, GW has the right.

          There are multiple manufacturers from Apple to Tempurpedic that all do the same thing. You must sell current range at the pricing they are selling the product for. I do not know how you guys think retail businesses work but I can tell it isn’t based on reality.

          So crash course, some manufacturers sell directly to retailers. These manufacturers do not sell their products whole sale to anyone. You have to meet certain requirements just to open an account and buy the manufacturers products. When they open an account with a manufacturer the retailer is forced to agree to certain requirements such as minimum orders, range, placement in store, and pricing. If a retailer doesn’t like it they can not buy the manufacturers products. They are under no compunction to purchase and the manufacturer is under ZERO compunction to sell to the retailer.

    • russ134

      And the Genestealers look NOTHING like Geiger’s design for Alien.

      • Richter_DL


        • russ134

          Okay, so I spelled his name wrong. Sue me ya dolt.

          • Ashley Stevens

            the original ynar stealers did. but they have evolved (?) into their current IP free state..

          • Kitirena Koneko

            Not so free as all that–Blizzard Entertainment had to change the Zerg of StarCraft so as not to copy the Tyranids too closely. Blizzard’s employees say that it’s because they and GW have a “play nice” agreement, but this article makes me wonder if GW didn’t threaten lawsuits when some of Blizzard’s designs got a little too close for their comfort.

    • Forced to be Anon

      The Rip-off of the movie “Aliens” was pretty obvious to me all the way back in the 80s…

      • Richter_DL

        Actually, the gene-stealers are more a rip-off of Octavia Butler’s Oankali aliens from her Xenogenesis series.

    • Actually, “hobbit” is copyrighted and therefore we have halflings everywhere else, who are very rarely hobbits. In case of, say, Dungeons and Dragons, they’re nothing like hobbits.

    • odinsgrandson

      The argument isn’t that Heinlein owns “Space Marine.” It is that “Space Marine” is public domain.

      The same is true of elves, dwarves and all those things the Tolkien Estate can’t copyright.

    • fudgiemcgeeorielly

      gene steallers are 100% the alien in alien.. what do you think that thing does. it combines with the genes of the host to make a new alien..

  • Gearcrow

    What a load of bullshit.

  • Pedreira Guilliman

    Its florida

    they come with this every 6 months

  • Boondale

    Anyone have a link to the doc of the complaint off-site from Spiky Bits?

    • spikeybits

      all you need is the case # which is clearly visible in the video you commented on: 17-cv-61100

  • Larry Coconut

    Headlines in the Imperium: “Florida Man Launches Black Crusade”

    • xero

      yea but cause it’s florida that sounds racist to muggles

  • Arthfael

    The bit about socialism in Europe is so typical American in its near fanatical arrogance…

    • Human 2.0

      not all american are like that. Most people would actually like to go towards a system more like the Scandinavian countries.

      • Richter_DL

        Then why do they, when it counts, always vote against it?

        • BrianDavion

          Gerrymandering for a start, the united states may claim to be a democracy but let’s be fair, so does North Korea 🙂

          • Richter_DL

            I think they’re actually oen of the few socialist states who don’t. But yeah. Gerrymandering. I tend to forget about that.

          • Valourousheart

            Just going out on a limb here, but could it also be that we see on the news what is happening in Venezuela, Germany, Italy and Sweden.

            I mean take George Clooney for example, he is a huge advocate of socialism, taking in refugees, and open boarders. And yet he is moving back to the US into a property with a huge wall, to protect his family after the attacks in the UK and Italy.

            But yeah, I guess an argument could be made for Gerrymandering being the main reason that the USA isn’t socialist.

          • Richter_DL

            He might also have personal reasons to move. I mean, he’d certainly need to to move to that hellhole of a country, where, from what we see on the news, there is at least one mass shooting every day, where murderous maniacs you refer to as “police” arbitrarily execute several people in broad daylight every day and are not even charged when there’s overwhelming amounts of documentation of them doing so, where nobody but a small elite can afford actual medical care, where life expectancy is dropping while medical expenses are skyrocketing to ridiculous heights, where you pay three times the amount of money Norway pays for the world’s most effective healthcare systems and end up with something between Greece and Mosambique depending on state, and where not even a crushing majority, won in a way that is as democratic as elections in third-world dictatorships tend to be, in all chambers of parliament, control of most state legislatures and politically appointed judges and public officials everywhere mean politicans can get just anything done. I could go on but I hope you get the point (hint: it’s about “what we see on the news”).

          • Valourousheart

            Gee I was hoping you would tell me that what I am see on the news about Venezuela, Germany, Italy and Sweden wasn’t true.

            Everything in your post about America is false. The only thing semi-accurate from a particular point of view is the rising health care costs… but that is predominately for people on Obamacare, but not typical for the vast majority of Americans with employer provided heath care.

          • Richter_DL

            It was an amalgamation of hyperbolic bullshit about America. Should I have coloured it pink for you to notice?

            My point being: don’t trust hyperbolic news stories.

          • DK

            Part of the reason universal healthcare in the US is failing is because the prior administration didn’t add regulations to prevent collusion between the insurers and the hospitals / doctors. For example, in 2005, the average US cost of 1 Litre of Saline was $85. A steep markup to be sure on something that then cost $0.75 (yes, 75 cents) per unit to create and ship. That’s a what, 11,000% markup?

            Fast forward to 2015, and the cost per unit to create and ship saline went up to $0.86 – 86 cents. The average cost however is now approaching $1000 per 1L administered. So the markup has gone up an order of magnitude to 116,000%.

            Someone going into a hospital for some flu-related dehydration might leave with a $4,000+ bill for 3 IVs and a chair over a 60 minute period. In Canada, that same cost is about $165 to someone out-of-country w/ no insurance (I know firsthand).

            The US spends more on healthcare (17.1% of GPD) than France, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark, Canada, Japan, Norway, Australia and the UK – combined! And that’s considering that more than half the households in the US don’t get gov’t insurance subsidy and pay their own insurance.

            If the US, at it current medical costs, were to have universal healthcare it would wind up being more than 50% of the entire budget – in excess of $2 Trillion. Add on Social Security, Unemployment and Welfare Services, and that’d be about $3.5 Trillion of the US’s $3.8 Trillion Budget.

            The US needs to fix it’s gov’t bloat. It’s estimated that more than 25% of budgets go to administrative costs. That should be between 10% and 15% at most. The US needs to regulate the insurer / healthcare provider markup and prevent these insane costs for basic services that drive people through $4000+ deductibles (on top of $6000+ annual premiums) in one simple dehydration treatment. The US needs to get some true statisticians to redraw the gov’t subsidy thresholds and create intelligent welfare programs instead of programs that encourage people to not work unless they’re making more than $40,000.

            If an administration would commit itself to making the US more intelligently efficient, we could have universal healthcare, free public universities and a working welfare system. But instead we had insurance lobbies that pay out $1 Billion in campaign funds to the DNC in 2012 to keep Obamacare in place and unregulated. Democrat or Republican – they’re all corrupt and rely far too heavily on these lobbyists to fund their campaigns and post-office lifestyle.

          • Arthfael

            Socialism is many things. It can be something as absurd as the communist system, in which case I am all against it. But to some people in the US it seems that any attempt to say, “no, your radioactive waste cannot go in the river I get my drinking water from” is some form of radical socialism. Or saying, “It’s fine, you can get as rich as you want… once that kid is fed and has social security, a good, neutral education and a chance to become rich like you too, one day”.

          • Paul Gregorwich

            We actually don’t claim to be a Democracy, at least not those of us that actually know enough to realize we’re a Republic

          • BrianDavion

            All a republic is is a country whose head of state is elected (if if by an internal body) and not inherited. one can be a republic and a democracy both.

          • Richter_DL

            Those who say this don’t understand either term. To put it in terms you are more likely to understand: Saying “I am not a Democracy, I am a Republic” is like saying “I am not White, I am a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant”.

          • Von

            You’ve just proven your ignorance. The fallacy that US is not a Democracy but a Republic was created by John Birch Society propaganda as part of propaganda effort against political left.

            Democracy is a classification of political system based on where the legitimacy of power comes from = the people.

            Republic is a classification of political system based on who is the head of the state = secular president, not for example monarch, head priesthood etc.

            US is both democracy and republic. I’m afraid you have been victim of ignorance and propaganda.

          • André Philipps

            Paul… you do realise that the US is BOTH a republic and a democracy, right? Because get this: A democracy is a form of government based on the citizens voting. A republic is *any form of government that does not include a monarch or autocratic dictator*.

      • Arthfael

        I apologize for a comment which indeed made it sound as if there was nothing/no one to save in the US. There is of course a great deal of value in the US. But a certain tone in the complaint harkens to everything that is worse in the US.

        • Valourousheart

          I didn’t assume you were speaking about all Americans. More likely the ones you have met or the ones you have seen on TV and the internet.

          What you are experiencing is a very vocal segment of the American public, that does not speak for the breadth of America. There are tons of examples in the news currently, but as they are all extremely political, and this is really not the right location for that conversation. So I’ll stick with a GW example.

          The non vocal or less vocal group behaves like this. I don’t like the look of the new Primaris Agressors. I won’t be buying them.

          The more vocal group behaves like this. I don’t like the look of the new Primaris Agressors. GW needs to go out of business so that no one can buy their stuff.

        • Human 2.0

          oh no that person is everything that is wrong with us.

          • Human 2.0

            Our politics have gone completely insane so no need to apologize.

          • Aaron Price

            ahhhh actually he NEEDS to apologize. If it wasnt for us AMERICANS you’d HAVE your socialism, ya know THE NAZI KIND!

          • James Villian

            you are just full of comprehension mistakes today. Despite the name, Nazis were not socialists.

          • Aaron Price

            Doesnt matter that they eventually banned the socialists, thats what got them into power. End of.

          • James Villian


          • Aaron Price

            Ahhhh YUP. BTW your OPINION on the matter is worth about as much as mine is 😉

          • Aaron Price

            “The Nazi problem comes down to this: As an ultra-nationalist, socially conservative, anti-egalitarian and fascist ideology, Nazism naturally falls on the extreme far-right end of the political spectrum; but if it can be successfully argued that it’s really a form of socialism, it would make more sense to place it on the far left.”

          • James Villian

            next time finish reading the entire article. the very last line from the article you were quoting is this “The claim that the Nazis actually were leftists or socialists in any generally accepted sense of those terms flies in the face of historical reality.”

          • Human 2.0

            yea dude Nazi’s were not socialists.

      • Paul Gregorwich

        I don’t understand how that has anything to do with anything. Though I would say that you need to get out of your echo chamber because most Americans don’t want to live under that type of system. If they had than Trump wouldn’t have had a chance.

        • Human 2.0

          it’s a bit more complicated than that the thing is he didn’t win by popular vote Hillary did however she also was not really for what we wanted either. but at least she was the devil we knew.

          • Frank Lemarin

            The system is made especially to assure a voice to small states, popular vote would means NY , CA and TX get to choose the president and the rest of the country have nothing to say. Trump is a douchebag but he got elected on the idea that something is wrong and we need to fix it ,of course he wont change things, but Hillary was running as the candidate of “more of the same”.

            Better off with someone who burns the house , than someone who let it rot until it fall on your head ,with the fire you know you have to get out at least. Trump 2020, he is the god emperor, the beginning of the end of our ochlocracy.

        • Ceci Pipe

          Trump had a chance because voters are stupid. See Rep voters whinging about their future without Democrat produced healthcare for instance.

          And this isn’t limited to USAians, voters across the world vote for ideas which sound fantastic in their heads and are downright terrifying when actually put into action.

          See Reps cutting back on pollution controls and Rep voters realising that this means they can no longer drink the water in some areas. The freedom to not have an adult around is a fine concept, till one realises that they’re very small compared to the bullies. Funnily enough the USA is the closest it’s ever been to public healthcare due solely to Republican voters realising how important it is regardless of their circumstances.

          Trump and co have managed to make it into a third rail of US politics. I guess it’s fortunate that your politicians are stupider than your voters. In my country my politicians know exactly what they can get away with and they go for it every time.

    • Forced to be Anon

      As is the bit about the fanatical need to troll to criticize Americans at every turn…

      • Richter_DL

        Maybe this has something to do with this guy bringing that point up repeatedly in his complaint. He brought it up, it was commented on. Suck it up.

        • Forced to be Anon

          Your last line cuts both ways…

      • Arthfael

        The tone of the complaint was pretty ridiculously jingoist, I just commented on it. I have defended Americans for decades, but recently, it’s been just too much.

        • Forced to be Anon

          feel the same way

      • hey if the shoe fits.

        guess you guys don’t like staying out of other peoples business so it’s only fair that we, “the worlds fine citizens” criticise you any time and every time.

        • Forced to be Anon

          Ya, Europe has a great track record there…

    • Ben_S

      I find it amusing that he thinks Europe’s socialist, while he’s the one asking the state to intervene in business transactions in the name of a free market.

      • Richter_DL

        Well, he does seem to come from a culture – White America – that is extremely good at cognitive dissonance.

        • Jim todd

          Great racism there!!! Or are we using the rule that some races can be painted with the broadest possible brush and it’s okay?

          • Arthfael

            “Culture”, he said “culture”. It would be good for everyone to realise there is a fundamental – although often blurry – difference between racism and criticism of cultural differences. Mind you, for target categories which are constantly subject to abuse, cultural criticism is often just a way to disguise racism.

            Double standards are found in most cultures, it just so happens that because the model the US advocates – that of ultra-liberalist economics – is so extreme that when the same try to push hidden protectionist measures on the world they appear all the more hypocritical.

          • Richter_DL

            All cultures pactice cognitive dissonance to some degree. However, White Americans are far more extreme than most. It’s pretty rare to see a culture that, to name just one example, fashions itself the freest on earth, valuing freedom more than anything, and yet has more (by any meaning of more) of its populace in prison than any other country, including North Korea.

            Hypocrisy exists in many cultures, but these heights are hard to reach, with the only serious contender being Saudi Arabia (the ‘guardians of the holy sites’ who just tore down the prophet’s house for an ugly skyscraper that looks like a hulked grandfather clock).

            Not saying this applies to every White American to the same degree, but as it is the shared socialisation, values and self-perception communicated through society at large, media, peers, and norms collectively referred to as culture, to some degree it applies to most, as culture generally does.

          • Aaron Price

            next time you euro trash need your asses SAVED because your socialism gets out of hand, call some other country.

        • Slaanesh Devotee

          Richter_DL That’s only the loony leftist ones. The rest are fine.

      • Ryan C

        I thought the exact same thing reading it. Does he even know what a free market is? 😉

    • Jim todd

      Can you now post something insightful about the ‘typical black’ or ‘typical Arab’, or is that a no-no? Maybe the ‘typical Jew’????

      • Arthfael

        I do apologize if my comment can be misinterpreted, it was not my intention to say anything racist.
        What I meant to say is that there is in the original complaint an element of jingoism that reflects common American nationalist tropes; you know, how a demagogue would need to express himself to make certain the masses would support him.
        As an example, the note about the US’ free-market economy vs the European socialist economy is completely ridiculous, especially when applied to the UK, and represents a typical American bias – which usually goes hand in hand with the semi-religious belief that radical, 100% unplanned economy is the only valid economic system and is flawless.
        So I wasn’t making a racial but a cultural statement. Note: as a biologist, I am in a good position to know that the concept of races as it applies to e.g. dogs cannot apply to human genetic populations, let alone a group of such a diverse background as Americans.
        In addition, I should say that I know many Americans personally and that not all of them subscribe to these views… but that even the most liberal ones do have a cultural streak that would instantly be recognizable as American in Europe. Just like we do have our cultural biases too.

        Now, I believe it is perfectly fine to say things like “typical Nazi” (is that a Godwin?), because the distinction is based on culture. The problem becomes more complicated when culture and race become mixed, as is the case for Jews, the Muslim/Arab pair, or any other case where racial and cultural prejudice are intimately bound. If you felt I was being racist, this was not my intention.

  • James Villian

    How is anyone taking this seriously? I mean, yeah, GW is often a corporate bully and asshat, but… um…. this really isn’t how the court system works. Aside from the part where this gets tossed out.

  • Christopher LaHaise

    Considering GW is directly responsible for the shutting down of three independent game stores in my city, AND tried to get my friend’s book pulled off Amazon, AND almost tried to get another guy I know’s game shut down, AND tried to get the Red Dwarf RPG shut down… I hope GW crashes and burns. No sympathy from me here.

    • James Villian

      i mean, sure, some comeuppance is probably due, but it won’t be this time.

      • Christopher LaHaise

        Well, one can hope. If GW went bankrupt and lost everything, I might throw a going away party.

        • James Villian

          Actually, I really hope that doesn’t happen. A healthy, well adjusted GW is good for anyone who plays games, even if you don’t play theirs. Still, getting slapped around a bit would be good for them. just won’t happen here.

          • Christopher LaHaise

            I doubt it would ever happen. Considering the history of that company, they’d have to pretty much remove everyone in the upper ranks and start over.

            But yeah, seeing them get slapped around might be a good thing.

    • AndrewSshi

      Well yes, but this fellow is throwing a rubber chicken at a Chaos Space Marine.

  • Ashley Marie Limon

    I think this complaint is a mess. lol

  • faeslayer

    That complaint reads as though a child wrote it.

  • Richter_DL

    The guy’s name ist Robert Anson Heinle_i_n. Consistently misspelled in the excepts (is there a way to see the whole thing? If so, how could I find it?). Defense will have a field day with this, and that’s not even considering a large part of his complains is filed on behalf of other IP holders. Seriously, how drunk was the barrister who set this suit up?

    And “the socialist base of Euorpe”? Jingoism and lack of any knowledge aside (another point defense will have a lot of fun with), this isn’t even English. Is this barrister, by chance, the infamous Besni fucking-dog Enthusiast? I suppose all the plaintiff’s base will be belong to GW, given he hired the most bottom-scraping bottom-scraper of a barrister in the US.

    Or maybe he self-represents. The quality of his complaint sure hints at this.

    • James Villian

      Great guess Richter_DLhe is self representing- it’s a pro se filing!

      • Richter_DL

        Ah yes, just found the documents and am reading it. Well. I would like to see someone succeed in slapping GW around over treatment of their licensed traders, but … I … don’t really believe Moore will be it.

        The markup isn’t gonna fly. Too many companies work that way, like the entire fashion and sports industry. Ruling in favor here would ban that entire sector by precedent. I mean, not that I would terribly mind, but I just do not see that. Not to mention that pure materials cost isn’t the only thing factoring into pricing.

        I suppose this is an angry forum post gone very, very far.

        • TheLastHonestLawyer

          Sadly, it’s not the worst I’ve seen. A former client filed for his conviction to be set aside because . . . the Jews were out to get him. It was a fifty page, single-spaced document, and as his attorney of record, it landed on my desk.

          • Richter_DL

            … wow.

  • Milton Vallecillo

    most of this lawsuit is window dressing to push a settlement. the 60 mil, and all the hubub regarding copyright is just a smoke screen to squeeze GW on their business practice suit. come one. if half the stories from vendors on the internet are true, it would sound to me like GW treats third party vendors unfairly, and by extension the customer as well. anyway, things like this have to happen to keep everyone honest. if the suit bogus in the end, then it’ll force others to have their Ps and Qs dotted and crossed before they try suing again. if the courts find some merit in the complaint, then GW will have to evolve. either way, customer wins. i hope.

    • TheSilverPrince

      The real issue is GW does not have to sell to him nor does he have to stock his store with their products. His claims are bunk.

    • “then GW will have to evolve. either way, customer wins. i hope.”

      i don’t need to be an “data analyst” (fancy way of saying internet pleb) to tell you that this will happen. will it be for the better of the consumer/customer? nope.

  • Julian Tysoe

    R A Heinlen, R R Tolkien and R Geiger must be spinning under their mispelt gravestones. If this guy prepares so thoroughly for all his cases he is sure to go a long way!

  • TheLastHonestLawyer

    Wow. Just read the whole thing. The good news is the court will get some good laughs passing this around before it gets thrown out of court. The plaintiff lacks standing in several places, his arguments are not based on law but rather emotional appeals, and he complains that GW makes money? That’s their job!

    Nice try, Florida Man.

  • William Cooper

    The Patent complaints are just there for padding, however the main complaint about illegal business practices is valid. As are the complaints about their return policy.

    • TheSilverPrince

      No they aren’t. A Manufacturer can IMAP their products. Meaning, they can say “you can sell my products but you have to sell them at MSRP.”. There are plenty of companies that do this. Apple, Tempur-Pedic, Serta, and few other companies will not allow companies to sell their products for less than they do.

      Also, his claim that GW is a monopoly is outlandish. You have Privateer Press, Catalyst Games, and so forth to stock your store. This guy has NO LEG to stand on at all.

      • Edward Deguzman

        Yes but Privateer Press, Catalyst Games and others also don’t make products for the Warhammer 40,000 miniature game either. Apple Serta and other companies also don’t prevent retailers from selling their products online.

        • Richter_DL

          What? Apple even locks their phones to one specific service provider who pay them for this. Apple only allows licensed and Apple-approved apps in their phones and reserves the right to remove paid-for apps withour refund from consumers’ phones without prior notice or explanation. And Apple stores don’t carry third party products.

          GW doesn’t force retailers to only carry their stuff. Just if they want to be an official GW store (and host events and tournaments and such things) they do. A very similar policy to Apple actually, but they won’t come to your man-cave and confiscate minis they have decided are heretical.

          And Apple is the company localy famous for sueing a kindergarten for using an image of an apple (a common fruit) in their logo. So much for fine corporate behavior.

        • TheSilverPrince

          That isn’t a valid argument. Warhammer 40k is their game. They can sell whatever they want for their game. Nothing prevents you from buying another game.

          Also, privateer makes Iron Kingdom Warmachine, Hordes, and such. No one else makes official products for their games. So what’s your point?

        • TheSilverPrince

          Also, a manufacturer can prevent you from selling online. Whatever you agree to with the MIR is kosher. If retailers do not like it they can refuse to carry Games workshop products.

  • Andre R.W. Schmeichel

    I am a lawyer. Rob – please talk to a legal professional before you start speculating about legal issues and suggesting liability or cause of action that you clearly don’t understand. I know there are attorneys that would have been willing to talk to you about this in advance for free. Myself included.

    Here’s the reasons this lawsuit will fall apart.

    1. In intellectual property law, you cannot protect an idea. You can protect an EXPRESSION of an idea, but not the idea itself. So the idea of ‘armored future soldier as space marine’ is not protectable no matter if it was used in the past. ‘Space’ and ‘Marine’ are both in common use making the name descriptive.

    The choice to switch away from these descriptive elements is to CREATE something that CAN be protected, such as ‘Astra Militarum’. But Space Marine really can’t be, at least not as a concept.

    2. Well what if a space marine is a WHOLE LOT like the one GW used? Well, then there might be a cause of action for infringement under common right copyright, but copyright law requires that such protection be exercised. If you have it, and don’t do anything with it, and don’t defend it against encroachment, you lose it. In each of the situations he quotes, there might have been a case, but because it was never pursued, the right to chase it evaporated.

    3. EVEN IF there was a case for infringement, this retailer lacks standing to BRING it. In order to sue in the US, you have to something called ‘standing’. Standing means the plaintiff is harmed. This retailer cannot claim standing for a common law copyright held by someone else. Any court will dismiss any copyright claims based on this alone.

    This is JUST the surface of what’s wrong with this guy’s effort. The bare surface. Many of his claims are civil claims without standing, completely failures to understand IP law, or criminal complaints that are normally brought exclusively by the DA, not by any one person. There’s also no evidence this was filed as a class action suit, something that would be required to claim damages against ‘1500 retailers’. He doesn’t get to sue for an entire class, he gets to sue for provable, measurable damages against HIM and HIS STORE.

    If he wants to file a class action, he has to go through an entirely different process and convince more than just himself that this is an issue.

    All in all, from what I’ve seen, this lawsuit is a shitshow and an embarrassment by someone who has way too much time on their hands and no real understanding of how the law works with regards to the areas he’s trying to seek remedy.

  • God that complaint was hot garbage.

    Even the 50,000% mark up.

    Sure 3 cents plastic per pour.

    Now add cost of design.
    Now add cost of mold.
    Now add cost of packaging.
    Now add cost of shipping.
    Now add cost of warehousing.
    Now add cost of advertising.
    Now add cost of distribution.
    Now add wages.
    Now add credit card transaction fees.
    Now add final overheads.

    Hmmm…. That’s not alot of profit left.

    • Valourousheart

      Yeah that was my thought. If it is so damn cheap to produce models of a quality level that a reasonable consumer would pay the prices that GW and other companies charge, then why doesn’t everyone just make their stuff at home? Or heck, why haven’t any of the established companies slashed prices to the point that they put GW out of business?

      • Richter_DL

        Besides, where else should they produce them? In the UK? Or Romania?

        • BrianDavion

          the UK production is part of WHY I’m fine with their prices being a little higher, if GW isn’t gonna farm all that stuff out to the third world, thats a busniess practice I can support

    • well it’s not much if you totally overlook the mark ups on the other things. 🙂

      edit: which is majority of your list that includes product.

    • Marcus Langdale

      No, it really doesn’t cost much at all. Nope matter what bullshit they talk.

      • stefan_pokorny

        steel metal moulds actually cost thousands of dollars…$5000-$10,000 even for a small miniature…and then there ARE all the other costs as well…just pointing that out…

        • PullsyJr

          I’ve looked into plastic moulding, and you are correct: some of the more complex, three part mould come in at about $10,000. They’re often limited to 10,000 pressings too (a nice coincidence, and makes for very neat sums!). These are prices from an Australian supplier; China is cheaper again.

          So the ameliorated cost of the part (no design work, packaging etc) is now AUD$1.03 each for 10,000 kits which is an easy number for GW to aim for.

          If it takes a purely guesswork number of 200 hours at $50/hour to design the sprue (that’s four solid weeks of design, plus a week of review) that adds another AUD$10,000.

          Packaging is fairly cheap, but let’s say a printed box is $0.20 each, then so far our running total is AUD$2.23 per part.

          Shipping, logistics and management overhead might add $2 per per box (which is a hugely inflated number, but it is easy to work with).

          Per box, you’re now at a total of AUD$4.23/GPB£2.20/USD$3.50. Everything on top of that is cream.

          I’m not casting judgement on GW here, but large quantities of packages have a low cost simply through scaled economics.

          • Dørmøter

            GW is a publicly traded company. You can see their profit margins for yourself. They are not at all outrageous.

    • ieyke

      There’s TONS left for profit left.

      GW is selling all of their models for a bare minimum of 200% of what they’d need to sell them to make a profit.

      They raised prices up and up and up and up and up and up and up, using every slight fluctuation of oil/gas prices to justify it. And that was obvious exaggerated nonsense at the time, but okay, fine.
      Their prices for the EXACT SAME MODELS are 2-3 times what they were 15 years ago, despite that the prices on oil/gas have dropped astronomically to the point that they’re as low or lower than they were 15 years ago.
      Because their price increases have NOTHING to do with oil prices. It’s just and excuse to raise prices, and never a reason to lower them.

      40k was insanely expensive when I STARTED playing 40k 15 years ago. When everything was 1/3-1/2 the price of what it is now.
      What they’re doing right now is complete nonsense.
      I’m not going to spend almost $80 on a plastic tank I could’ve bought for $40 when I started.
      I’m not going to spend $35 for ONE 1″ character model. That was expensive when it was $12.

      This guy may have a hard time getting anything to stick to GW LEGALLY, but pretending that he’s not generally right about GW having insane price mark-ups and loads of shady business practices is just being oblivious.

      He’ll NEVER get any of the IP complaints to stick. That’s all a load of nonsense.

    • dante13

      Then add the 60% mark up .. just because.. Here in Aus..

      • Well, I don’t fully know about Aid, But I known for NZ alot of that comes from government fees on imported luxury goods

  • Steven

    I’m worried what this could mean for the gaming environment. Battltech 1984 was maybe a copy from Macross 1982. George Lucas used maybe lots of ideas from Valerian and Veronique. Whats about D&D maybe Tolkin. And yes I know GW was very unfriendly to resellers and shop owners in the past. I knew some well, some closed their stores some sold it. Magic and tradingcard games is today mainpart of such stores in my region. Im in this tabletop thing for almost 20years. In the early days there was every few months a new system played. I did not live in a big city and still do not.. it happend that when I got my force ready for a Tournament the system wasnt played anymore. I was almost winner in a Mechwarrior Tournament if it was not canceled with me as only attendant. Confrontation (rip), At43 (rip), Mechwarrior (rip), classic Battletech (not so much fun)… etc

    Depending on how this ends it will have an effect on lots of brands and gamesystems I like. Will see how it affects europe but it could be for me the death of tabletop games because with kida and work I do not have the time to paint a army and learn a new system quickly. Warhammer was and is the only wargame played everywhere. And if this goes down because of IP, then the next one will kill wizards of the coast with dnd… and so on. Must not but could be.

    • Steven

      I wanted to post this at Andre R.W. Schmeichels comment but could not for some reason.
      I just read the comments and I think your/his comment hit the mark and I hope really that it takes place as you/he said. As written in my initial comment if anything regarding IP gets through it would affect lots of other systems. Strange things happen sometimes but not this time.

    • djoyce

      The “Unseelie” mechs stolen from Crusher Joe (Locust) and Macross were removed/redesigned in later books. FASA got sued over them.

      • Richter_DL

        And now HBS is sued again.

        • theragman

          Harebrained will spend some serious money on lawyers, which will hurt them, but the suit will get thrown out. The mech designs in question were removed from the IP long before Jordan Weisman reacquired the rights to the property.

          • Richter_DL

            Hopefully it will not hurt the studio too much and delay BT for too long. I mean, they’re not exactly a huge company.

    • Richter_DL

      Actually, back in 1984, BattleTech had licensed a whole lot of stuff from Macross, at that time under TCI. This was on shaky grounds and actually led to a lot of lawsuits that contributed to FASA’s fall.

      As of this year, this issue has come back to haunt Harebrained over their new BT game, since the new IP owner, Harmony Gold (a TV IP holder and real estate developer) over IP violations.

      I’m not worried about this suit, but the HArmony Gold one looks a lot better prepared. That’s the one that could be worrying. Overall, though, both seem pretty blatant money grabs, tbh.

      • Teppo Hytönen

        The Harmony Gold lawsuit, like the ones before, are a bunch of bullcrap. In Japanese court it was found that the party who supposedly sold the rights to the contested properties didn’t even have the rights as theirs to sell.

        Patent trolls suck, and although this Moore lawsuit doesn’t seem particularly well-founded in its claims, I do agree that GW’s legal escapades regarding their IP are usually also utter horse hockey.

      • theragman

        Hi, I’m with FASA. We didn’t fall because of lawsuits. We got offered a lot of money for Shadowrun and Battletech, sold them to Topps, and closed down operations to become an IP management firm for about twenty years. If you haven’t noticed, we started publishing again about three years ago, with a new 4th Edition of Earthdawn, a steampunk line called 1879, and a survival-horror high fantasy game, Demonworld, that we bought outright from a German company years ago as a miniatures wargame and developed further ourselves.

        • Richter_DL

          I actually haven’t noticed and stand corrected. Best of luck on Earthdawn 4E. You do not plan to re-license shadowrun, by any chance?

          • theragman

            Nope. That would require us to own it. We didn’t license it out, we sold it to Topps/Catalyst. We have no interest in buying it back.

          • Richter_DL

            Understandable, but a pity. Seeing ED and SR under one roof again would be great news. Ah well.

          • theragman

            1879 has the easter eggs linking it to Earthdawn at this point. It fills the hole left in our cosmology by the departure of SR.

  • BrianDavion

    there’s at LEAST one error in that rambled mess to, he claims terminators rip off clan elementals orginizationally, however Space Hulk pre-dates the introduction of Elementals to Battletech.

    • theragman

      He doesn’t own the rights to Clan elementals. Topps / Catalyst does. That’s lack of standing, which is grounds for the suit to be thrown out.

      • BrianDavion

        yup, and as I said, termies predate elementals by a good 2-3 years. gaming wise I think we’d all be better off looking at Harmony Gold’s Law suit against the makers of the current Battletech video games.

        • Richter_DL

          Indeed. Especially since, size-wise, HBS is a lot more vulnerable than GW.

          • BrianDavion

            yeah, the last lawsuit from HG re Battletech was largely responsable for FASA closing it’s doors,

  • Chris Proctor

    He has no case, it is well within there legal rights to do the things they do.

  • djoyce

    This whole lawsuit is a trash fire. The UK does have a fair-trading law which prohibits companies from tellings stores how to sell their goods in many ways. So stores can be online and offer x% discounts. But the US does not. So all of this exclusionary bs is perfectly legal in the US.

    GW has lost lawsuits over trying to own ‘eldar’ and ‘space marine’ and ‘dwarves’ which is why all the names have changed to something they can trademark going forward.

    GW won against Chapterhouse studios wrt elements they could copyright, such as in-game markings and figure designs. But they lost on owning ‘eldar’ and other terms already in the public domain.

    • TheSilverPrince

      This guy is completely and totally ignorant of MIR. Manufacture-Imposed Requirements. His argument shows he does not understand Anti-trust laws. GW has the right in the US to impose requirements on resellers and if he doesn’t like it he does not have to carry their products.

      FOr this to be an anti-trust issue GW would have to have made deals with other manufacturers to price set. GW has the right to sell their products at whatever price they want, so long they do not enter in agreement with other companies to set their prices according to GWs.

  • Ogemo1

    Watch out hornby and airfix, no more will we suffer your injustice!! How dare they make tiny versions of real life things…. Thats right airfix, for too long have you been making a profit by giving people a hobby, trying to force us.. Nay demand us hand over money in return for your toy plastic kits, there a blatant rip off of every aircraft ever made, by many different global companies.. For shame hornby how dare you provide the populis with your perfect little trains…. I would at this time point out that in england, non of the above would be taken seriously by our court system, which is nowhere near as stupid as Americas. I will be removing spikybits from my feed and hope this silliness abates, or more hilariously gw just refuses to deal with any of the companies involved. And more over, deter others from forcing anymore poor Americans to pay money for their products. This is almost a stupid as insisting every company that makes anything anywhere else in the world must therefore move all their manufacturing to north America or whichever state complains they have to pay more postage. Sorry for the rant.

    • Richter_DL

      You mean, in socialist Europe.

    • Joshua Burke

      You do realize the retardation of your statement correct? You say “deter others from forcing anymore poor Americans to pay money for their products”…so essentially you are advocating for the removal of GW products in the US…You do understand that GW, As a British company, is probably more financially dependent on its US market than any other single country don’t you? Lets do some math and put this in perspective according to google the populations of the US and England are 323 million and 53 million people respectively…Ok..So now lets say that roughly 16% (rather low estimate actually given all the GW products, but sure) of the US population partakes of GW products in one way or another (Books, Video games, Table top, Dice-roller RPG, etc.). That would the be equivalent to every man woman and child of England sending money to GW…..That’s right folks…16% of the US population is the same as the entire country!!! The uncomfortable fact that those in the UK wont like is that with out the US, GW would MONUMENTAL profit losses. So please think before opening your mouth again…..

      • it’s impossible. he/she was so quick to be sarcastic or faux rant that he/she forgot sense and sensibility let alone the ability to reason or think.

      • Richter_DL

        Actually they’re probably very dependent on the EU market, like most British companies. Warhamer is prettty big in Eastern Europe especially, in Germany too. But I might be wrong, I haven’t checked their sales figures.

        • Robert Mohun

          Just curious, where are you from? Also, does this sales report take into account non-GW stores that sell GW product? Amazon and other on-line retailers?

          • Richter_DL

            It does. It groups sales into GW stores, third party retailers (amazon is explicitly mentioned) and online sales from their centralized Nottingham online store.

            Also, Germany.

          • Robert Mohun

            I found your comments about the “inequality and poverty ” in the US, especially the Midwest, amusing. BTW, how are things in Germany? Anyway, go to frontline gaming’s website to see how many 40k events are occurring in the “poor” Midwest. The only real obstacle to 40k in this region is lack of players, and then only in rural areas.

            The only people in the US who want to play 40k and can’t afford it are kids with no job. As far as how expensive the hobby is, compared to most hobbies here the cost is relatively low. In termsnof cost per hours of enjoyment, its pretty darn cheap.

          • Richter_DL

            Hence why I wrote “rural Midwest” and refered to the lack of players, mostly because of a lack of people to begin with.

            The US, generally, is as inequal as one of the more developed third world countries, comparable to India, Malaysia, or South Africa. There’s stats to look into for that.

  • John Barber

    They don’t manufacture their models in China. They outsource their printing of books there, but the models are cast in the UK

    • Richter_DL

      Oh, they do? There goes that complaint, too. I did think they cast their plastics in China, too, though. I know they do their resin casting in-house.

  • Kris McDermott

    Really? … Really? You want to be the guy that sued and possibly ruined Games Workshop for hundreds of thousands of people across the planet? Let it go bro. For the small amount of headache they might cause – they bring a lot of light into people’s lives. Let it go. Don’t be that guy.

    • James Villian

      well, seeing as how THIS guy can’t possibly be the one who ruins GW, it’s probably fine.

    • LMFAO.

      it’ll be thrown out of court.

      but for sake of taking your comment remotely seriously….who really cares about GW….are they sending care packages to your nan for being a loyalist who empties their life savings into GW bank account? lol.

  • Marcus Langdale

    They deserve all of this, with their demented management policies

    • expect price hikes as a result to this.

      good thing i no longer buy their “3 cent lump of 50,000% mark up plastic” any more.

      • Valourousheart

        I never quite understood that behavior. When I stopped playing White Wolf games, I never looked back. I certainly never spent time on the werewolf and vampire message boards posting comments about how I don’t play any more.

        So what keeps drawing you back in? This isn’t to say that you can’t post comments like that here, because you can. It is more about why do you post? When you quite playing GW games, did you replace that hobby time with something else? Does that other thing not hold your interest any longer? Or did you simply replace playing GW with complaining about GW.

      • Marcus Langdale

        Yeah, well, by doing that they will doom themselves further, i think. So many people shy away from 40k because of the obscene prices, and with a raise in price it’s gonna get worse- they’ve already started their 13th Cash Crusade by making the Primaris so overpriced.

  • Dave Satterthwaite


    next paragraph


    • Endymion0

      Pretty much sums up the idiot behind the lawsuit.

  • Dave Robbo

    What a clown. Yes, it’s the Evil Empire and all, but this is just yet another case of the ludicrous US legal system being used to make someone some money. Not surprised he’s a lawyer…

  • Y ddraig gosh

    finaly someone relized the corrupt ways of gw all there models are made in china and then sold here why do you think there are so many chinese knockoffs because they have the molds because they make it for pennies so gw is tasting some of there own medicine for once

    • Emmet Keane-Teague

      Incorrect. The Chinese knockoffs are recasts of models which can be seen by their comparative lower quality, they are not made from the same molds, nor do they even use the same material or technique as the GW originals.

      • Y ddraig gosh

        recasters use a better resin than GW and thew quality depends on the recaster in question depends if they rush it or take there time i seen recasts that are equil to the original model don’t just jump to a conclution thats based on what others say infact if you take a chinese knockoff and a gw model and throw it at a wall the gw model will break more than the knockoff now how is the knockoff sold for less while being better quality than gw answer gw rips people off using cheaper plastic or resin so the chinese have better products and buisness dealings gw sais there worse quality so others wount buy them but a buddy of mine does and they are better quality so you are incorrect sorry to say

        • Endymion0

          “the chinese have better products and buisness dealings” Ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha, oh god, really?

  • Nick

    This makes me a little sad because I love Warhammer, both fantasy and 40k, but GW does lack ethics and gets greedy with their business practices. So much so that I get very annoyed and don’t want to make them richer, to the point where I will stop buying their products. I must now abandon something I like out of principle. A sad day.

  • Joseph Cole Jr

    Hope he wins. Their stuff is so overpriced it’s criminal.

  • dante13

    Good luck mate i hope you win.. Not for the money but to change these cheating $%&# way they do business.. I like their minis but i’m sick and tired of being scammed here in Aus with their prices..

    • Endymion0

      While you’re raging at it, tell the government to lower it’s import taxes.

  • xero

    Um reading this i’m realizing Asbmodee is doing a lot of this as well

  • nunyabeeswax

    This is perhaps one of the dumbest complaints I’ve ever read.

  • IRMacGuyver

    Why is there a picture of Starship Troopers in here? Did someone think that was Warhammer 40K?

  • I didn’t know they had started letting kids write legal complaints…

    Good for you kids 🙂

    Also, shame on you clickbaiters….

  • James Nun

    hope this idiot loses and is forced to pay for the legal defense.

  • GLOC Enterprises Inc.

    Ok, I’ve read your MO, and all the takes on all of this… I still say that the case could end up 50/50% chance. Why I’d say this? Well it’s pretty damn obvious. You can’t put a price tag on anything that’s (IP) here of copyright enfringement because there are really no such thing. And like you’ve said. You can’t sue LOTR for their stories because they were lore back in the day. And likewise futures to follow.

    In a way, it’s pretty much a bad idea to copyright anything, even though yours or anyone else’s ideas are patent, because in the end, it will become the “Collective” sooner or later with humanity’s “Librarium”.

    In other words, it will be pointless when things like “ideas” can become legally viable when it shouldn’t. its like saying… “Since when did the English language become an IP patent? When it should be free for all?

    My point is, it shouldn’t be law, and I think it shouldn’t be in the first place. This is what’s causing the problems and wreaking havoc in the judicial system, a breakdown if you will, like a paradox “the chicken or the egg”?

    However, having said that…Extortion, Fraud and negligence is quite another thing… That’s raw outright criminal, and it should be on the basis of this argument and not for the impunative damages of the charges as a whole with IP, because that’s just the icing on the cake for the plaintif but for his begrudged dirty dealing business of GW is arguementable too and especially, like politics, everybody wants a vendetta avenged!

    My two thoughts,


  • Ricardo Escobar Ex

    Drugs for life threatening issues are a necessity and the price isnt reflected by supply and demand. Charging 30$ for a 3cent figure (unfair estimate, since packaging and production costs are all weighed) is supply and demand. They charge that much because someone is WILLING not needing the item.

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